Curse

Unendingfear · Oct 26, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

We now know exactly where Dhumm is! ^-^ http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Somet...This_Way_Comes

Free Runner · Oct 26, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Its funny how a holiday quest tells us things we've been waiting four years to confirm.

So from the quest we can gather:

- Grenth beat Dhuum by gaining the support of the Reapers. But he didnt actually destroy him, he simply imprisoned him much like Abaddon but in a dormant state.

- Dhuums energy is fueled by the death of creatures in the Underworld (a nice reference to UWSC aswell)

And strangely he has the title "Ender of All". The final judge. Its almost like the quest is saying Dhuum takes things further than death (Possibly why the Reapers and Grenth rose against him). From the quest i got the idea it was saying Dhuum didnt allow people to simply become spirits, instead ending them altogether, but that remains to be seen.

Also funny enough the quest confirms something we speculated about in my Mad King Thorn thread last year - Thorn is a Spirit Lord. This was a fantastic move by Anet - introducing anticipated lore in a quest chain that slowly plays out. The last line "Dhuum is coming!" was great.

(On a side note: The whole Dhuum being forced into being dormant and slumbering until now reminds me of the current situation with the elder dragons, only without the forced part)

Unendingfear · Oct 26, 2009, 11:59 PM // 23:59

I know, it's turning me into a lore fanatic ^_^

Devastating Flames · Oct 27, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

i cant wait till the rest of the quest come out let c this guy lol hmmm i wonder if they nerf uwsc after lol

Konig Des Todes · Oct 27, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Grenth beat Dhuum by gaining the support of the Reapers. But he didnt actually destroy him, he simply imprisoned him much like Abaddon but in a dormant state.

This also helps against the idea of Abaddon returning like Dhuum. Abaddon, who was killed, is unlike Dhuum's case. So Dhuum's case can no longer be used as support for the theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

And strangely he has the title "Ender of All". The final judge. Its almost like the quest is saying Dhuum takes things further than death. From the quest i got the idea it was saying Dhuum didnt allow people to simply become spirits, instead ending them altogether, but that remains to be seen.

I got that idea as well. Maybe my theory on a spirits' life and death will be proven or disproven soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Also funny enough the quest confirms something we speculated about in my Mad King Thorn thread last year - Thorn is a Spirit Lord. This was a fantastic move by Anet - introducing anticipated lore in a quest chain that slowly plays out. The last line "Dhuum is coming!" was great.

Agreed. I enjoyed this quest very well. Thorn being confirmed to be a spirit - whether a "spirit lord" means he is a lord that is a spirit, or lord over spirits, is yet to be seen, as is what kind of spirit (Envoy?) he is as well.

The quest added lots of lore. And fellas, lets leave the thread to lore please.

Arghore · Oct 27, 2009, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Wonder if he/she realy looks like an insect

Gmr Leon · Oct 27, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

- Grenth beat Dhuum by gaining the support of the Reapers. But he didnt actually destroy him, he simply imprisoned him much like Abaddon but in a dormant state.

I'm not sure where the idea originated, but that may lend more support to Grenth being a rebel spirit/demigod of sorts prior to his ascension to Godhood.

Obrien Xp · Oct 27, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Anyone think that anets implementation of the idea that killing in UW makes Dhuum stronger has anything to do with UWSC being the meta. I love how playing impacts lore like this. <3 Anet!

BloodyGoneGirly · Oct 27, 2009, 02:37 AM // 02:37

we must stop this madness Dhuum returning <.< i knew killing stuff in UW is very unhealthy no worry Grenth must have some sort of plan

Braxton619 · Oct 27, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Yes the way they say "All the deaths of UW are powering Dhumm" is signaling the death to UWSC.

Great plot in my opinion. Way to go ANET!

jonnieboi05 · Oct 27, 2009, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leet Tankur

Yes the way they say "All the deaths of UW are powering Dhumm" is signaling the death to UWSC.

Great plot in my opinion. Way to go ANET!

Looks at your avatar...

On-topic: This is sure to be insteresting the more it unfolds.

~LeNa~

draxynnic · Oct 27, 2009, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

And strangely he has the title "Ender of All". The final judge. Its almost like the quest is saying Dhuum takes things further than death (Possibly why the Reapers and Grenth rose against him). From the quest i got the idea it was saying Dhuum didnt allow people to simply become spirits, instead ending them altogether, but that remains to be seen.

Aye, that was my observation as well. If true, this also suggests that the Ritualist profession couldn't have existed before Grenth took over (Konig has countersuggested that there are spirits in other locations they could summon, but the UW would logically be the best source). This a) pushes back the latest possible time of Grenth's ascension, and b) gives ANet a potential lore excuse for completely cutting Ritualists and Ritualist functionality from GW2 if they've decided to pander to the ritualist haters if Dhuum overthrows Grenth between now and then. (Which doesn't necessarily require that he wins this time around!)

Either way, you can bet I'll be watching this Halloween's events with interest... and a virtual notebook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leet Tankur

Yes the way they say "All the deaths of UW are powering Dhumm" is signaling the death to UWSC.

Great plot in my opinion. Way to go ANET!

Indeed. These quests seem to be a reflection of the background behind Kephket Marrowfeast's arrival (who was apparently attracted by the bodies left behind by all the griffon farming). Something of a shame from my point of view if it does lead to drastic changes, however, since I haven't had the opportunity to do an UW clear the old-fashioned way.

BrettM · Oct 27, 2009, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

This also helps against the idea of Abaddon returning like Dhuum. Abaddon, who was killed, is unlike Dhuum's case.

Who ever said that Abaddon was killed? When Kormir took his power, she only said "his will is broken", which implies his continued existence. Olias says he is dead, but implies that he still has some form of existence that must be dealt with ("Grenth will not make the mistake that the other gods did").

I have to wonder: if Dhuum has been imprisoned since Grenth overthrew him, how is it he was able to cooperate with Abaddon's schemes? Could it be that some highly-placed underling of Dhuum (an Emissary or one of his generals) took it upon himself to speak for his master and make the alliance?

Thalador Doomspeaker · Oct 27, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

What BrettM says is true. Grenth made the most terrible mistake of all. He left alive a god, who wishes to end all life forever, changing the fundamental rules of life, death and undeath in the process, drastically.

We can't know if Abaddon is dead after all. Perhaps he lost all of his knowledge and power, and became the mortal he was from the very beginning. Without knowing that he was a god once, only remembering his mortal life.

I'm really curious about Dhuum's appearance, though. I still not believe that he is insectoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

On a side note: The whole Dhuum being forced into being dormant and slumbering until now reminds me of the current situation with the elder dragons, only without the forced part

Yeah, however it reminds me of the Lich King's former state from Warcraft. Forced into that magical ice, which is in our case magical doors and layers of divine magic. Perhaps he was able to telepathically command his troops into following Abaddon.

Edit: I really wish I had written 'Dhuumspeaker' instead of 'Doomspeaker'. :P

Free Runner · Oct 27, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Could it be that some highly-placed underling of Dhuum (an Emissary or one of his generals) took it upon himself to speak for his master and make the alliance?

Thats probably what happened. The Forgotten cant know that Dhuum himself is there commanding, i'm betting they came to the conclusion he was cooperating based on his minions swarming the DoA. Frozenwind makes it obvious that the part about Dhuum being sealed wasnt common knowledge to all afterall.

Also Dhuums forces completely took over the Underworld at one point, yet Dhuum didnt budge at all. My guess is theres something commanding them and that the original takeover of the Underworld was an attempt to find a way to wake Dhuum - with the first stage being sealing away those who trapped him (the Reapers).

Konig Des Todes · Oct 27, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Konig has countersuggested that there are spirits in other locations they could summon, but the UW would logically be the best source.

Which is true. However, new spirits seem to have to go to the Underworld (unless they get "special treatment" like Shiro and Ural).

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Something of a shame from my point of view if it does lead to drastic changes, however, since I haven't had the opportunity to do an UW clear the old-fashioned way.

Due to all the changes made, I doubt they'll remove the quests and thus old lore from the Underworld. If they want to add more quests/lore, I think/hope that they will make a new instance of the Underworld.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Who ever said that Abaddon was killed? When Kormir took his power, she only said "his will is broken", which implies his continued existence. Olias says he is dead, but implies that he still has some form of existence that must be dealt with ("Grenth will not make the mistake that the other gods did").

I think that "some form of existence" would be a spirit. We see him die for the most part (his body does start to shatter when the power leaves), and I am willing to agree with Olias that he is dead - also, the mistake would be of leaving him alive and imprisoned (which was his mistake too!), thus leading to Grenth making sure Abaddon dies and cannot rise again. So Abaddon is dead - but not gone, he is most likely a spirit getting special attention (if not destroyed) by Grenth.

And no, that doesn't go against what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

I have to wonder: if Dhuum has been imprisoned since Grenth overthrew him, how is it he was able to cooperate with Abaddon's schemes? Could it be that some highly-placed underling of Dhuum (an Emissary or one of his generals) took it upon himself to speak for his master and make the alliance?

I was wondering that as well, but for him to be able to aid Abaddon while weakened is one mean feat! I would have to say that his strongest generals (The Fury being the strongest of them all, for what we know - others being the Four Horsemen and the Dryder Queen(s?) *of those we know of*) took it upon themselves to free Dhuum, and at least The Fury (since he is the only one seen aiding Abaddon) thought that aiding Abaddon would help freeing Dhuum.

That's my opinion on what is the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker

We can't know if Abaddon is dead after all. Perhaps he lost all of his knowledge and power, and became the mortal he was from the very beginning. Without knowing that he was a god once, only remembering his mortal life.

What gives you an impression that Abaddon is now just a mortal? I find it very likely that he is now just a spirit - assuming Grenth didn't destroy his spirit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker

I'm really curious about Dhuum's appearance, though. I still not believe that he is insectoid.

Hopefully, we shall see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker

Yeah, however it reminds me of the Lich King's former state from Warcraft. Forced into that magical ice, which is in our case magical doors and layers of divine magic. Perhaps he was able to telepathically command his troops into following Abaddon.

Telepathy would probably be the only case, if Dhuum wasn't asleep during Abaddon's attempt to escape. However, the dialogue seems to imply that Dhuum waking up was very recent - not over three years ago (which would be when Nightfall occurred).

Unendingfear · Oct 27, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

If anyone has read the newest quest dialogue, the reapers say that it is inevitable Dhumm will be released. : o

Free Runner · Oct 27, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

The Reapers also make it very clear that he is the end. They also mention how "Dhuum" is just one of many names given to him.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 27, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Lore of today's quest:

It seems that the Reaper of the Chaos Planes thought Dhuum dead. Perhaps only Ice King Frozenwind knew of Dhuum's surviving.
The Reapers like flattery. Except for the Reaper of the Spawning Pools.
Dhuum's release is inevitable.
Dhuum has many names: The Final Judge, The Ender of All, Emperor of Oblivion,Master of Nothingness, Death Inevitable, The Mouth at the End of Darkness, the Omega Death, the Voice in the Void are some.
Mad King Thorn is also called the Autumn Lunatic.
Mention of "the Void" and the "Song of Dhuum"

I wonder, what is the Void? Is it like the Rift and the Mists?

Talking with Thalador and Daniel Frozenwind - we came with the same idea (uninfluenced by each other) that is, the opposite of the Mists. Going off of my spirit theory, the Mists is what takes in the energy from destroyed spirits, and recreates it. The Void, takes spirit energy, but doesn't reuse it. It would be the true death. Only (known) way to get sent there - a soul eaten by a demon, or scarab, maybe more.

HawkofStorms · Oct 27, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

I did like the addition of unique personalities to the Reapers. Some seem more cracked then others